Last Sunday, a gunman walked into a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, and opened fire on the congregation and killed more than two dozen people. The next day, President Donald Trump told reporters the mass shooting wasn’t a “guns situation,” and instead blamed it on “mental health.”

Politicians have linked mental illness and mass shootings again, and again, and again. In this week’s podcast, host Jimmy Williams talks to a journalist who looked into that link … and found that it doesn’t exist. For more on mental illness and violence, check out Olga Khazan’s story at The Atlantic.